美版知乎:中国成功让10亿人脱贫,做了哪些印度没做到的事

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What did China do but India hasn't that brought a billion people out of poverty?

中国做了哪些印度没做到的事,成功让10亿人脱贫?

以下是Quora读者的评论:

Nagarajan Srinivas, No less proud or less patriotic than any other Indian ;)

The best and the most sustainable model of poverty alleviation is to enable the economy of the Nation grow as a whole. Basically this is what China was able to do, and India is still trying to do.

So, I just briefly sum up the points as to why China could achieve economic growth, which in turn reduced poverty:

最好的、最可持续的扶贫模式是让国家经济能够作为一个整体实现增长。基本上,中国就是这么做的,而印度仍在努力。

所以,我简单总结一下为什么中国能够实现经济增长,从而减少贫困

1 China under Deng opened her economy by 1978, while India opened hers only around 1991.This way China had a head start of almost a decade and more over India.

2 India, as a democracy always have to take all her population along, by balancing and reconciling the demands and aspirations of all segments of people. Obviously India could not have pushed her policies or programs so rapidly or rut-sly like China.

3.China forced a Single Child policy on her people, which made families have only one child. This certainly helped poverty reduction, because with less children to feed,clothe or educate, all households will be left with more income and purchasing power, and get over poverty levels. But the flip side of this policy has already started showing. In India also birth rates have started declining and reaching acceptable/ideal replacements levels, and more importantly this has been achieved without any pushing or prodding from the Government.The advantages of this is already showing in the so called Demographic Dividend now enjoyed by India.

Coming to the second part of the query, just like individuals,countries also come with their own sets of pros and cons, and each country tries to embark on poverty alleviation programs best suited for their conditions. What works for one country need not work for other countries, and even for the same country, what worked at one point of time may not work always.

It is also very difficult to describe or define poverty. There are many yardsticks and bench marks to measure the poverty levels of any population.

Similarly, poverty need not mean only economic poverty, and there can be many others, like emotional poverty, intellectual poverty,cultural or moral poverty etc.

中国在1978年实行了改革开放,而印度直到1991年才开放经济。中国就因此领先了印度10年甚至更长时间。

2.印度,作为一个国家,需要通过平衡和调和各阶层人民的需求和愿望来引领全体人民一起致富。显然,印度不可能像中国那样如此迅速地推行她的政策或项目。

3.中国实行计划生育,每个家庭只有一个孩子。这当然有助于减少贫困,因为如果需要吃饭穿衣或接受教育的儿童越少,所有家庭获得的收入和购买力就会更多,并跨越贫困水平。但这一政策的另一面已经开始显现。印度的出生率也开始下降,并达到可接受/理想的替代水平,更重要的是,这是在没有来自政府的推动或刺激下实现的。这种优势已经在印度现在所谓的人口红利上体现出来了。

进入问题的第二部分,就像个人一样,国家也有自己的优缺点,每个国家都试图开展最适合自己条件的扶贫项目。对这个国家有用的办法对另一个国家不一定适用,甚至对同一个国家,在某一时刻有用的也不一定能永远适用。

贫困很难描述或定义。衡量人口贫困水平有许多标准和基准线。

同样地,贫穷不一定只是指经济上的贫穷,还可能是其他很难描述或定义方面的贫穷,如情感的匮乏、智力的不足、文化的贫瘠或道德的缺失等等。

 

Jefferson Yin

I know my answer might offend many Indians but isn’t it a discussion?

So please calm down.And I would only talk about means.

In general,India should change itself in the following aspects.

1.Give up some out of date religions like Caste.Free the minds of the poor,let them think twice.

2.Change the educational situation.Invest more money in the primary education rather than colleges.Indian colleges are good enough for their national situation.

3.Treat female better.Female could produce the same wealth as male.

4.Develop the primary industry.

5.Change the strategies.Not always ask for the best goods and just buy buy buy.India should try their best to make their own market feed their own industry.A bad example is India’s military industry.

我知道我的回答可能会冒犯很多印度人,但这不就是讨论吗?

所以请大家冷静下来。我只讲解决的方法。

总的来说,印度应该在以下几个方面做出改变。

1.摒弃一些过时的宗教,比如种姓。解放穷人的思想,让他们三思而后行。

2.改变教育状况。把更多的钱投入到基础教育而不是大学。印度的大学对于他们的国家来说已经足够好了。

3.对女性好点。女性可以创造与男性相同的财富。

4.发展第一产业。

5.改变策略。不要总想着盯着最好的东西,只会买买买。印度应该尽最大努力让自己的市场养活自己的工业。印度的军事工业就是一个糟糕的例子。

 

William Lee, Grew up in China, have studied and worked in west

Like it or not, to help the poor, you can’t let the poor talk.

Look around, in any country under aut-rian system with more or less market economy, poverty was greatly and quickly reduced.

Reason? simple, to help the poor, you shouldn’t GIVE money to the poor, instead, you should use the money to create the jobs with which the poor can EARN a better lives.

Therefore, on surface, activists fight for the poor, but in reality, activists doom any hope for the people in poverty.

不管你喜不喜欢,为了帮助穷人,你不能让穷人发表意见。

环顾全球的国家,在任何一个体制下或多或少存在市场经济的国家,贫困情况都在迅速大幅改善。

原因是什么?很简单,要帮助穷人,你不应该把钱交到穷人手里,相反,你应该用这些钱来创造就业机会,让穷人可以过上更好的生活。

因此,从表面上看,活动人士是在为穷人而战,但实际上,活动人士只会让穷人的希望化为泡影。

 

George Tait Edwards, Student of Asian Economic Miracles

Q: What did China do but India hasn't that brought a billion people out of poverty?

1 Broad Answer: China has investigated, understood and practised the histori荣华彩票appcal school of MMT Shimomuran-Wernerian macroeconomics and that understanding and practise brought a billion Chinese people out of poverty.

2 Discussion: After the Nixon-inspired ping-pong diplomacy of the early 1970s, when the Chinese delegation was visiting Tokyo to sign the Chinese-Japanese rapprochement on 29 September 1972, that delegation were quite astonished by the extent of the commercial and industrial development of Japan and Tokyo. China was then largely a peasant economy, and the comparison of Tokyo airport, Japan’s roads, buildings, and obvious prosperity of the Japanese people in 1972 with that of the Chinese, made that delegation utterly surprised and perhaps very envious. If Japan could grow from war devastation to industrial prosperity in a few decades, why couldn’t China?

问:中国做了什么印度没做到的事,成功让10亿人脱贫?

1.往大了说:中国调查、理解和实践了Shimomuran-Wernerian式宏观经济学的历史学派,这种理解和实践使10亿中国人摆脱了贫困。

2.讨论:尼克松在20世纪70年代初发起乒乓外交之后,1972年9月29日,中国代表团访问东京,签署了中日友好协议,中国代表团对日本和东京的商业和工业发展程度感到十分惊讶,当时中国基本上是农民经济,1972年东京机场、日本的道路、建筑物和日本人民显而易见的富裕生活与中国人的悬殊对比,使该代表团感到非常惊讶,也许非常羡慕。如果日本能在短短几十年内就从战后的废墟实现工业繁荣,中国也可以!

2.1 Chinese Response to the Japanese Economic Miracle The Chinese delegation then reported back home about what they had seen. From 1973, China’s  sent delegation after delegation of Chinese cadres, economists, and scholars into Tokyo to discover precisely how the Japanese had grown so rapidly. The visiting Chinese begged their Japanese hosts to share with them the “secrets” of high Japanese economic growth.

2.2 Chinese Access to Japanese Economic understanding The Chinese were very insistent, and eventually encountered the writings of “Japan’s most influential post-war economist” - the Asian Keynes, otherwise known as Dr Osamu Shimomura (1910–89). See the Development Bank of Japan biography of Dr O Shimomura at

2.3 See my letter to Narendra Modi (who is meant to be an economist) at

India Could Become The Next Economic Miracle Country

2.1 中国代表团随后回国报告了他们所看到的日本经济奇迹。从1973年开始,中国派出一个又一个由中国干部、经济学家和学者组成的代表团前往东京,希望准确地了解日本是如何快速发展的。来访的中国人恳求他们的日本东道主分享一下日本经济高速增长的“秘密”。

2.2 中国人对日本经济的理解。中国人非常有毅力,坚持不懈,最终遇到了“战后日本最具影响力的经济学家”——亚洲凯恩斯,也被称为Osamu Shimomura博士(1910 - 1989)。参见日本开发银行关于下村博士的传记。

2.3参见我写给纳伦德拉·莫迪的信(他应该是一位经济学家)

印度可能成为下一个经济奇迹国家

3 People who do not know how to accelerate economic development - and that’s all the neoclassical Western Consensus “economists” - in my opinion do not have the right to call themselves by that description. Knowing a lot about mathematical economic theories based on invalid assumptions does not equip anyone to give good economic advice to a country, as the Bank of England has remarked.

3.1 See one of the the most relevant of my hundreds of internet articles, the one mentioning the master economist Kenneth Kenkichi Kurihara

4 Over-arching Conclusion The indian administration does not understand high-growth Shimomuran-Wernerian macroeconomics, China does!

That’s not only an Indian failure, but also a Western one!

Article updated Friday 27 March 2020

3.不知道如何加速经济发展的人——这就是新古典主义的西方共识“经济学家”——在我看来,他们没有权利用这种说法来称呼自己。正如英国央行所言,对基于无效假设的数学经济理论的大量了解,并不意味着任何人都有能力为一个国家提供良好的经济建议。

在我的数百篇网络文章中,有一篇提到了经济学大师栗原健一(Kenneth Kenkichi Kurihara)

4.总结:印度政府不懂高增长的Shimomuran-Wernerian式宏观经济学,而中国懂!

这不仅是印度的失败,也是西方的失败!

文章更新于2020年3月27日星期五

 

Narendra Patel

There are already a lot of good points which have been made so I will just focus on one thing which I think is a major factor in this disparity and which has not been touched on by the other answers.

China used its own language to develop. This meant that almost everyone in the country could be engaged in the process of development, regardless of their educational or socio-economic level in society.

In contrast, India continues to insist on mandating English, even where it is entirely unnecessary for communication among people who share a common mother tongue. Discriminatory hiring based on English locks out the masses of poorly educated and low-socio economic citizens in India from participating in economic development. This creates problems at so many levels. Companies are not able to fill vacancies with suitable candidates, which restricts their ability to grow. Those that are hired have lower productivity and standards because they are being forced to work in a language with which they are not entirely comfortable. Most importantly, it means that the vast majority of Indians are not able to better themselves, which means they are unable to remedy their their poverty and lack of education and continue to be a drain on the national economy.

If Indian society took a different attitude to language, these people could engage in economic activities which would enable them to lift themselves out of poverty by seeking and creating employment in the same way the Chinese people have done.

我已经看到很多不错的观点了,我只关注一个问题,我认为这是造成这种差异的一个主要因素,其他的答案没有提到过这个问题。

中国用自己的语言来发展。这意味着该国几乎所有人都能参与发展进程,而不论他们的教育或社会经济水平如何。

相比之下,印度坚持使用英语,同一母语的人之间的交流完全没有必要使用英语。以英语为基础的歧视性招聘将印度大量受教育程度低、社会经济地位低的公民挡在了参与经济发展的大门之外。这在很多层面上造成了问题。公司找不到合适的候选人来填补空缺,这限制了它们的发展能力。那些被雇佣的人的工作效率和标准较低,因为他们被迫使用一种他们不太适应的语言。最重要的是,这意味着绝大多数印度人无法改变自己,也意味着他们无法摆脱自己的贫困和教育不足的问题,只能一直成为国民经济的负担。

如果印度社会对语言采取不同的态度,那么这些人可以从事经济活动,能够通过寻找和创造就业机会来摆脱贫困,就像中国人所做的那样。

 

 

Sourav Soumyajit Mohanty

Following are some of my viewpoints that could explain the reasons, though not thoroughly,but understandably with a clear insight for sure.

以下是我的一些观点,可以解释原因,虽然不是很透彻,但内容很清晰,大家肯定能理解。

1.Precisely speaking China itself isn’t out of poverty fully as yet,rather they are relatively more developed than India is. As a matter of fact China is moreover around 2.5–3 times larger than India(comparing the areas of both the nations) but the population is nearly the same. That makes India a weaker economy in terms of per capita economic projection which in turn affects its position in international standings. India is currently standing at 140th and 133rd position among all the nations in per capita nominal GDP and per capita Purchasing Power Parity respectively whereas its positions in overall nominal GDP and Purchasing Power Parity are a staggering 10th and a spellbinding 3rd respectively. China has adopted a number of re-ess approaches to put a break on its increasing population that India most likely hasn’t. That gives them an added advantage of a relatively more uniformly distributed population which utilises both natural and artificial resources in a better manner.

1.准确地说,中国本身还没有完全摆脱贫困,不过相对来说,他们比印度更发达。事实上,中国的国土面积比印度大2.5-3倍,但人口几乎一样多。这使得印度在人均经济实力方面更弱,而这反过来又影响了它在国际上的地位。印度目前的人均名义GDP和人均购买力平价在所有国家中分别排在第140位和第133位,而其在整体名义GDP和购买力平价中的排名是惊人的第10位和第3位。中国已经采取了一系列措施来遏制人口增长,而印度很可能还没有这么做。这给了中国一个额外的优势,一个相对更均匀分布的人口,以更好的方式利用自然和人工资源。

2.China had a head start of some 50 years in its pursuit of warfare technologies & participations and economic projecti荣华彩票appons for it was one of the allies who won the WWII and subsequently managed to acquire a permanent seat in the UN that India is bereft of so far. That shows the very reason why China could attract much more investors which resulted the economic progressions.

3.China might have focused on the core sectors more. As far as Index of Industrial Reform is concerned,India has scored an adjustable 37.90 in “core sectors’ contribution towards economy”,which needs to be improved soon. Over these years China managed to utilize its coals,petroleum products,electricity and associated products successfully.

4.Scams and corruption are major obstacles on our way to excellence and economic improvisations. That needs to be watched out for.

5.  Indian economy has always been more or less concentrated on mixed economy, green economy and welfare economy.

2.中国在钻研战争技术、参与和经济预测方面领先了大约50年,因为中国是赢得二战胜利的盟友之一,并在联合国获得了一个永久席位,而印度目前还没有获得。这就是为什么中国能够吸引更多的投资者,从而导致了经济的发展。

3.中国可能更关注核心行业。就工业改革指数而言,印度在“核心部门对经济的贡献”方面得分为37.90,是可以调整的,需要尽快改善。这些年来,中国成功地利用了煤炭、石油产品、电力和相关产品。

4.诈骗和腐败是我们印度通向卓越和经济进步的主要障碍。这是需要注意的。

5. 近年来,印度经济一直专心搞混合经济、绿色经济和福利经济。

译文来源:三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com/49779.html 译者:Joyceliu

 

Pritesh Sadani, Learning From My Mistakes!

I can provide you two reasons for your question:-

  1. Both of them formulated good policies regarding poverty eradication, but India wasn't able to implement them. Where as China was spot on in this matter.
  2. India Has not been able to control population, Where in case of China their one child policy made quiet an impact.

我可以为你的问题提供两个理由。

  1. 他们制定了关于消除贫困的良好政策,但印度未能实施。中国在这件事上完全正确。
  2. 印度一直无法控制人口,而中国的独生子女政策发挥了重要作用

 

Kishore Kumar, Oberving the nation wearing different perspectives

Economy works in a funny way. If you wanna develop economy then you must develop the social structure. The major such development made by the chinese is the Barefoot doctors.

These are not traditional doctors but instead are farmers who got training in basic medication, first aid, birth control etc. They donot go through rigorous training of traditional doctors but only basic. They are called barefoot doctors because they work on barefoot in farms. It may be hard to believe but they actually improved the healthcare of the people. These healthy people were inturn responsible for the economic development of the country when specialized economic zones were setup.

经济以一种有趣的方式运行。如果要发展经济,就必须发展社会结构。中国的这种发展主要是通过赤脚医生。

他们不是传统的医生,而是接受了基本药物、急救、节育等培训的农民。他们没有经过传统医生的严格训练,他们被称为赤脚医生,因为他们赤脚在农田耕作。这可能很难相信,但他们确实改善了人们的健康。这些健康的人反过来又在经济区成立后负责建设了国家的经济发展。

 

 

Sorav Wagadre, works at Infosys

I think the biggest thing which China did was One-child policy. A country can not, just can not remove poverty if its population keep on increasing with horrible exponential rate. Its true that India is making progress, but all the progress is waste because there are more number of people to consume those resources. Unfortunately, neither our government nor education system neither society thinks about this.

India can never beat China or for that matter any sensible country who keeps its population in check. There is no value of life in India. And Its very Sad to say but India’s future is dark.. Deep Dark

我认为中国的最重要举措是独生子女政策。如果一个国家的人口继续以可怕的指数速度增长,那么这个国家就无法消除贫困。印度确实在进步,但所有的进步都是白费力气,因为有更多的人来消耗这些资源。不幸的是,我们的政府和教育系统都没有考虑到这一点。

印度永远不可能打败中国,也不可能打败任何控制人口的明智国家。生命在印度没有价值。可悲的是,印度的未来是黑暗的…漆黑一片

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